In this episode of Main Street Hustle we sit down for coffee with Kristan Serafino, a celebrity Hair Stylist and mens grooming expert whose client list reads like a who’s who of Entertainment A listers. Now, Kristan won’t divulge her clients names but a simple search of her instagram feed or a review of her online portfolio shows her work with Ryan Reynolds, Daniel Craig, Matthew McConaughey, Shawn Mendes, Norman Reddus, Kelsey Grammer and Michael J. Fox, just to name a few. Her work has appeared on the covers of just about every fashion magazine including GQ, Esquire, Vogue, Vanity Fair, and Cosmopolitan. She’s been an on air guest at QVC and a brand spokesperson for a line of beauty products. You can follow Kristans work on instagram and twitter at serafinosays.
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Transcriptions are produced by AI as well as humans and may contain errors.
Glen Sanders: Welcome to Mainstream Hustle, a podcast that will introduce you to everyday people who became entrepreneurs because they saw a real opportunity and worked their ass off to make it a reality. These are entrepreneurs from around the world, that know the path to wealth is not easy, and it's not quick, but it's totally worth it. My name's Glen Sanders, and like our guests, I am a small business owner. My business is Fresh Air Flicks, the company that specializes in big outdoor video screens for sporting events, outdoor movies and marketing. We're just getting started with this podcast, so your support is super important. So if you like what you hear, and you want to hear more, please support us with a donation on Patreon. Subscribe to Mainstreet Hustle on iTunes and leave nice rating and review. Follow us on Facebook, as we build a community of like minded small business owners. And if you jump over to mainstreethustle.biz, you'll find links on our website, extensive show notes, and as time goes by, we'll provide followups on your favorite entrepreneurs from the podcast.
In this episode of Main Street Hustle, we sit down for coffee with KS Serafino, a celebrity hairstylist and men's grooming expert, whose client list reads like a who's who of entertainment A-Listers. Now KS won't divulge her client names, but a simple search of her Instagram feed, or a review of her online portfolio, shows her work with Ryan Reynolds, Daniel Craig, Matthew McConaughey, Shawn Mendes, Norman Reedus, Kelsey Grammar, and Michael J. Fox, just to name a few.
Her work has appeared on the covers of just about every fashion magazine including GQ, Esquire, Vogue, Vanity Fair and Cosmopolitan. She's been an on-air guest at QVC and a brand spokesperson for a lot of beauty products. KS is a hard-working businesswoman, and she's completely independent, working a never-ending schedule of photo shoots, press junkets, morning shows, and once in a while back at a salon, all while building her brand and networking to find new clients.
We pick it up with KS on a Sunday afternoon in a rather noisy Time Square coffee shop.
Glen Sanders (GS): What's the hustle these days, what's the hustle?
Kristan Serafino (KS): I mean the hustle is, it's a Sunday and what time are we sitting here, whatever time it is. From you, I go to another meeting for a dinner meeting, for the next project that I'm working on, which is at 8 o'clock. Tomorrow morning, I have a job at 7 in the morning. Right now, I've been mostly in New York, but December, I'm traveling two different times, January I have another job I'm traveling for. Then I start a whole press junket for a huge world tour for a movie that's coming out in the summer. I mean, there's no stopping. Because when you do stop, it just passes you by. I mean it's always constantly evolving.
GS: So it's seven days a week.
KS: Seven days a week, 24 hours a day. I wake up in the middle of the night, "Oh, I just need to do this." Or I think, now social media, that's a whole nother animal. I mean that in itself was a full-time job. It's a constant struggle. There's no easy way. No one's given me anything. I've earned everything.
GS: But you have an agent that goes out and gets you work right?
KS: I'd love to think that, my agent is wonderful, but the reality is, I get a lot of, most of my work. I'm the one's that's out there, I'm the one that's doing the job. I'm the one that presents myself to the client or to the publicist. And then what my agent does, is they'll put me up for new jobs, and it's up to me to keep the jobs. It's up to me. So I'm the one that's working it. They'll negotiate for me, they'll do all the billings and the contracts, and the paperwork.
GS: What part of the business do you have to do, that's not actually cutting hair and how much time do you think you spend doing that?
KS: All of it. I just do all of it. I mean cutting hair is the easy work, I mean truly, that's the easy part.
GS: What's the hard part?
KS: What's the hard part?
GS: The traveling?
KS: You know, it's not-
GS: Lugging the gear around.
KS: That's not even the hard part. The hard part is always trying to be, for me, and this is just my personal goal, is that I always want to do better. I mean there's always something I can do to be better. There's always something that I can always do to make sure that my client feels more confident today than they did the last time I was with them. And trying to think about how is it that I can better myself. I mean that's really the honest to God truth. And that's I think with us, that's what does make me where I am today, in a great position that I do get to just travel the world. But it gives me more opportunities than I think most. Because I never take it for granted.
GS: Are you working harder now than when you did when you were in a salon?
KS: I think I've always worked hard GS. I mean that's just such a lame answer, but I think I've always worked hard. Building clientele isn't easy. I went from one salon to the other salon, even in Manhattan, which you would think, oh from uptown to downtown, how difficult is it to go from uptown to downtown? I lost half my clientele. Because people are like, "I'm not going downtown." And you're like, "Well wait, it's only 10 minutes." It's like a 10 minute cab ride. But you know how New Yorkers are.
GS: Right, it's a 10 minute cab ride, until it's not, and then it's a 30 minute cab ride and then you're pissed because you just wasted an hour.
KS: Yes, exactly. So even that, I mean you have to build your own clientele. No one gives you a clientele. You have to earn the trust and respect of people.
GS: Same thing whether you have a chair some place or whether you're doing it the way you're doing it. So you get to fly around the world on jets, on private jets, you get to work with big name celebrities.
KS: That sounds so obnoxious.
GS: I know it does.
KS: That's obnoxious, it sounds terrible.
GS: But do you have personal relationshiops with any of them? I mean, you get to go out to dinner with them, do they text you? Do you create real friendships?
KS: As you know, a hairdresser has a confidentiality hairdresser clause, which is we never cut and tell. So I can never share any of that information with you, it's hairdresser client confidentiality agreement.
GS: I didn't say to name names, it sounds like it's a really cool job, and you don't really have to work very hard, you get to hang out, you get to ... right, that's what it sounds like. What's the reality?
KS: The reality is, I work my ass off every single day, and the hustle is real. I mean there's nothing easy about what I do. It's been 15 years of constant struggle and it still is, to this day.
GS: How much of your work is travel?
KS: I would say 50% of my work right now is travel. I go through spurts. I did last year a world tour. We did, I think it was like seven or eight countries in like six days. I mean you literally ... It sounds glamorous, and in some ways yes, it's very glamorous. Because I guess when you're doing, you know you're getting off a jet, and there's security to pick you up, and then all of a sudden you're getting in these cars and there's no lines, and there's no waits, and there's just none of that. But the reality is, you're going from your hotel to the junket, to the press, to the red carpet, to the plane. And then you're in another country the next day. And you do that back to back.
KS: For me it's easy, because I'm just getting them ready in the morning, and then I'm just there to watch to make sure there's not anything necessarily would be offensive on camera, and also making that actor feel their best. Because most of these actors and actresses, what they go through, it's not like you and I get up every day, we wash our face and put some lotion on. We style our hair at the door. I mean, they're spending hours in a chair. Then there's all the harsh lights, and there's weather conditions, meaning getting like tortured sometimes with silicones and masks, and makeup, and same thing with hair and weaves.
KS: So what I'm trying to do is help them every day to maintain that.
GS: And at the end of the day, you've got to get their makeup off and recover their skin somehow.
KS: Exactly. And again, when you-
GS: So you're not just cutting hair?
KS: No, not really. It's a lot more than just cutting hair, but it's not-
GS: You don't want to name names of the blemishes that-
KS: We don't have to.
GS: Needing specific coverings.
KS: We often do, it's their skin, we all have blemishes from time to time, everyone does.
GS: What's it like to be the entourage?
KS: Yeah, I had one situation with my musician who is young, and hundreds, I kid you not, hundreds of screaming teenage girls, and we came off of a tour by airbus, and he got taken. I don't even know how or what happened, really it was so fast, when I tell you just like hundreds of girls I was surrounded by, and I just was standing there in a sea of girls.
GS: Who all trample you in order to get-
KS: Trample me, to get to him. And next thing I knew, two very, very, very large men came literally from under my arms, lifted me, and just plowed, not walked, plowed through these women, young girls. And the next thing I know, I just was inside, and it was a blur. But I just remember my feet weren't on the ground, but I was moving.
KS: Oh I've been left behind once. And then, I [inaudible 00:08:58]-
GS: Like in a city or?
KS: No meaning, as you're moving through buildings or you're moving and then you have fans and crowds, sometimes you have to maneuver. And if you want up close-
GS: Do you kind of like go through the kitchen and the back doors, and the?
KS: Through the kitchen, through yes back doors.
GS: The back alley ways, the secret corridors.
KS: And sometimes you just get ... you know, I'm 5'9", I'm not exactly petite and tiny, but I'm a thin 5'9", and sometimes there's a lot bigger people that want to get to my client. So they will just jump in front, and sometimes I do, I get either pushed out, and then security they'll just grab me. I've had funny things like-
GS: What would you say if the bonus experiences you get because of the kinds of clientele you work with, like being offstage at a concert, or something like that?
KS: I think for me it's the behind the scenes. It's watching a client go through what they do, their routine, to get onstage. Or going through their experiences to go in front of a camera. Or walking a red carpet. Those are something, and think oh they're so lucky they get to do that. No, stand in front hundreds of thousands of screaming at you, or walk a red carpet where they're pushing in and the little fences are falling. It's a world that no one ever [inaudible 00:10:13]. So that part of it, you never quite get used to, but it's interesting to see it. Because you're not just looking from afar, you're actually in it. It's horrible. I mean, I wouldn't want someone tugging at my shirt and hair, and any other part of my body just to touch me. That I would never, I don't think you would ever become comfortable with that. I mean there's that sort of space you want that space around you, it's that very vulnerable area that you don't let people in.
GS: That personal space.
KS: That personal space.
GS: If someone were to look at your rate, your rate is much higher now doing what you do, that it would be in a salon. If you were in a salon, you can push through what 10, 15 people in a day.
KS: I mean yeah, we have a hairstylist out there, I think he gets $1,500 for a haircut. So that's really good rates. And then you have-
GS: You don't get $1,500 every time you go out?
KS: No, I don't, I don't get $1,500 every time I cut hair.
GS: Why does he get $1,500?
KS: That's the rate he set for himself in his salon. And then there's hairdressers that are $9.00 an hour.
GS: And there's a salon hairstylist that gets-
KS: A salon hairstylist. So I mean, it varies. The thing I think about this industry, is it's good to know that there is no ceiling. You can constantly push. For someone to be out there and charge $1,500 for a haircut and people will pay. Who's to say someone won't pay $2,000, who says someone won't pay $5,000, I don't know, but that's the only if, I have no idea.
GS: But don't you need to charge more, because you are seeing less people in a day? So in your role now, you're still working eight, 10 hours, 12 hours a day, but you're not putting eight, or 10, or 12 clients through a day. You're working with one client for 12 hours.
KS: Yes. I mean I would love to think that makes sense and that's how it works. But getting back to that, editorials x amount of numbers, advertising you can push the rates, depending on the job, depending on who's paying for it.
GS: Are you making more money now than at your height of working in a salon?
KS: Yes, but I'm a different hairdresser than I was then.
GS: How's that?
KS: Well I'm more seasoned. I mean I have seniority.
GS: So are there seasoned hairstylists that work in salons that can make the same kind of income?
KS: Of course. You start off as an assistant, and you get your chair. And typically you're a lower price. You're paying when you go to a higher level or a master stylist, you're paying a higher rate, because of their experience. So I would want to believe that as a hairstylist, as I continue to educate myself even within the salon, if I was just behind the chair, that I would continually get better in the salon itself every year would elevate their rates, and as I continue to grow, my rate would go up.
GS: But you have to change salons to do that? Sometimes people, the best raise they get is when they change jobs. Or is it better to stick with that salon?
KS: I think that has to do with location of salons, and type of salons. If it's new and different, and brands. There's prestige, and then there's [inaudible 00:13:15]. It's where do you want to be. So with New York City, Madison Avenue, has a certain prestige about it. So they can drive numbers higher, because that clientele is willing to spend more money.
GS: Don't you still have that problem if you off on a junket for a month or something, now you can't service a particular client for a while.
KS: It does.
GS: Do you risk losing your client?
KS: I mean there's always that risk. For anything, even if you're behind the chair in a salon. You're not available that one Saturday that someone needs you, there's a chance that they may go to someone else.
GS: You do a lot of stuff for the morning shows, right?
KS: Yes.
GS: So what happens if you have more than one client, running around different morning shows in the same day?
KS: Sometimes you double dip. I mean and that's where, I have wonderful agents. My agency is Tracey Mattingly, and there's a group of agents that are wonderful in managing my schedule, and who's requesting me. And sometimes it is, like it comes down to, and this is where it's very fortunate that the industry is forgiving. An advertising campaign is certainly a much bigger budget than say a red carpet. And I think that whether it's a publicist or whether it's the actor, most people understand that we all are trying to survive and make a living. So obviously an advertising campaign will always trump a red carpet. I've been very fortunate, knock on wood right here at this table, that my clientele come back. Which is really, really, really good. I mean it's-
GS: Why do you think they come back, or what do you do consciously to make them come back?
KS: What do I do consciously, I think the first thing is I'm really professional with what I do. I mean, I'm not trying to be a celebrity, that's not my job. My job is to make sure that that celebrity or that CFO or CEO, or that athlete, looks and feels their best when they go out to the public. But I think it's a hairstylist's job behind the chair, that you educate your clients.
GS: But that brings the client back to you, the next time they need a haircut, because you're not just giving them a haircut, you're working on a style consult-
KS: Exactly.
GS: That lasts, that takes place over a number of visits.
KS: Everyone sits in my chair, I don't care who you are. They never see what they like, they always see what they don't like about themselves. If you're sitting in front of a mirror for 45 minutes to an hour, not very often in life do you sit in front of a mirror for that long. So you're forced to face or to look at, every insecurity that you could possibly have.
GS: So you have other celebrity hairstylist friends?
KS: Of course, of course. We all-
GS: What's the industry like, are you guys friendly, do you help each other out?
KS: I think so. I've never, in any industry that I've worked in, I've never been like isolated from anyone.
GS: Is there any cut throat nature to it, I mean do they try and steal clients from each other? Does any of that ever happen?
KS: It is so funny you say that, I don't believe in that. If a client leaves me, it just makes room for a new one. And that's just how, I have no right to own anybody. I do a job, I do it the best that I possibly can, I provide a service, I hope that client is happy. If they are they'll come back. If they're not, then my time with them is done. It's just makes room for a new one.
GS: Are you turning business away?
KS: I never turn business away, ever.
GS: How? How is that possible? Sometimes you have to, because you're just too busy.
KS: Well it's not that I'm too busy. Do schedules conflict? Yes, that happens. But do I turn it away? No, my agent tries to work to figure it out, we try to work around the times, is it flexible, can I have an assistant fill in for me, and then I'll go back to a job, I mean that happens sometimes.
GS: What are the non-glamorous parts of your job?
KS: The non-glamorous parts of my job, are schlepping my kit around New York City, which weighs about 60 pounds, I think 50, 60 pounds. Do I really need all that stuff in that kit.
GS: Can't you just have a limo come pick you up, and just take you from job to job?
KS: What world do you live in? That's the one I want to live in.
GS: Not in the celebrity world, so tell me, how do you get from one place to another?
KS: This is why I say, I am not the celebrity. They are the celebrity. I'm the help, I'm the hired help, I'm the hairstylist. I mean I get around like you get around. I walk around, I walk everywhere.
GS: With your 60 pound bag.
KS: 50, 60 yeah. And it's funny, because at most times, I need a few things. But it's that one time that I don't have it, I need to be prepared for anything.
GS: What's in a 50 pound bag, I mean don't you just travel with some scissors and a comb?
KS: I mean everything from skin care ... no, I mean there's scissors, there's clippers, there's beard trimmers, there's skin care, there's makeup, there's wardrobe. A lot of times if I'm with someone and a button pops, I have to be able to fix it. I have a lint brush. If hems undo, you've got to be able to like tape them up, so you have to be prepared. Someone cuts their finger, you have to be prepared for everything.
GS: Do the clients just call an 800 number, and be like, "Hi, I'm a celebrity and I need to get my hair cut, can you hook me up." How do they get in touch with your agent and find you?
KS: For me it's referrals. So I'll meet someone, I'll be with someone, I'll be with a publicist and the publicist has other clients. Or it could be I meet an assistant of an actor, and then I have a relationship with her, and then she recommends me.
GS: Do you ever cut the publicist's hair?
KS: Of course, of course you do. I mean you cut-
GS: It's part of the marketing.
KS: You cut whoever wants to sit in your chair. Being behind the chair, that's the happy place. That's what it's for, and that's what I work my entire for. I was in corporate for ten years, and became a hairdresser at 30, so I mean, I left everything. A good paying job, 401k, IRA, savings, bye- bye, to $6.50 an hour [inaudible 00:19:03]. My first year I made $12,500.
GS: Why'd you do that?
KS: Why? Because I just loved being a hairdresser. I mean I really did, I absolutely love it.
GS: But how did you find out you loved it, if you weren't doing haircutting?
KS: I think I always had a desire. My mom was a hairdresser or [inaudible 00:19:20] cousins, and I had always thought I wanted to be a hairstylist. But my mom, and God love her for it, she said, "No, you need to go to college.", my sister and I, you had to get your degree. And I'm glad I did. I have a bachelor college degree.
GS: In what?
KS: Communications. Like I tell my dad, I talk a lot. So, he's like, "Oh, how's that degree working out?"
GS: Do you think you get your talking a lot from the communications degree or from the family?
KS: No, I would have to say I probably get that from the Italian heritage of the family.
GS: So one of the challenges you probably have with your business is, you only make money when you work.
KS: Yes.
GS: Have you thought about that?
KS: Again, it motivates me. It really does, it motivates me every day. Because there is an up side, continuous every day I get X amount of dollars because I get up and I go to work. So it keeps me highly motivated, but the potential for me is greater, and the paychecks are way better.
GS: How much a year?
KS: It depends on the day.
GS: How much more are you making now versus your ... you're not making your $12,000 a year now.
KS: No I'm definitely not making that.
GS: Are you back to making your six figures?
KS: I'll just say that I'm able to buy new shoes.
GS: At will?
KS: Exactly, at will.
GS: Every day or once a week?
KS: I would say every day, I would say that I guy nice shoes. I still go to sample sales, I mean they're still my shoes.
GS: Can an everyday person afford, I mean what's your rate compared to what it was, or what it would be like if I went to a high-end salon?
KS: You really want to go there don't you, you really want to go there. It's hard to put a number on it, the rates vary depending on the job. It truly does.
GS: What varies in the job?
KS: Editorial, meaning magazine rate, is a flat rate across the board.
GS: Is that industry based or is it?
KS: That's industry based.
GS: Based on the work you have to do. You're still doing the same work.
KS: It doesn't matter. Editorial, [inaudible 00:21:14] they pay a flat rate. It doesn't matter who's on the cover, it doesn't matter who you're shooting with, it doesn't matter, that's the rate. But in turn, you're getting a cover magazine, and you're getting credits in there in the story, so it's exposure as a groomer, as a hairstylist. It always fluctuates, independent film versus a big film.
GS: So what's the range, what's the low and the high of the range?
KS: The range is, glad we're not [inaudible 00:21:44] ranges. Never cut and tell, never cut and tell.
GS: Do you command a different rate than say somebody else that might cut the same person's hair? Or is it kind of flat across the board, the group of you that are A-List hairstylists?
KS: Again, and I'm really being sincere, it depends on who's paying for it. One time may give a great rate, the next may ... I still do free jobs. There's still tremendous wonderful magazine talent there, the ones that are left, there's no pay at all, I just get a credit, so my name's in it. So you do those too.
GS: How does that help you?
KS: It just adds to the portfolio, it keeps me relevant.
GS: So speaking of being relevant, do you do a lot of social media?
KS: I do, social media is a full-time job. I post my work, I post on things that are happening throughout my day. It's sort of like letting people that enjoy my work see a little behind the scenes. But even with that, you have to be very careful, because there's that confidentiality with my clients. Because if I'm shooting today something, it might not come out for three months.
GS: That's also an incredible way to build your social media profile, you tag the celebrity in your-
KS: Well I mean that's something, that's one of those sort of codes, that-
GS: I mean you have a particular client, who has huge, I mean they all have huge social media followers, but one has grown your social media maybe more than some of the others would you say?
KS: Yes, because he has-
GS: He allows you to-
KS: It's not like just allows, but he's of that generation, that that's all they do is social media. I mean it's interesting, because I don't think I have that many followers, but according to publicists for beauty brands they say that they like my following, because it's very engaged, I do my Instastories, they comment, I talk back to them, because I feel like if you're going to take the time to watch what I'm doing, that the least I could do is acknowledge, and that's what I think is important. There's nothing about my social world that's fake, it's my real world. For the first time I've been asked to review, and being paid sponsorships for products. For me-
GS: On your Instagram?
KS: On my Instagram. For me, I only will engage with that if I believe in it. Because it's not about the money, it's about the integrity for me. I think that when I do talk about products, or if I do use something on a client, it's because I've used it on myself, I've used it on a man, I've used on my friends, I've used it on family, and then it goes into my kit. Because I believe in it. I'm not just saying because someone's brand is paying me money, it's not-
GS: Right, so now brand in that case, now brand has access to your ... it's their way of getting access to your social media following, which may skew a little younger based. Are some of your clientele, are they spending money on hair products and?
KS: Yes those are definitely women and men that are buying products.
GS: Do you find that they're more male or female?
KS: I think a fair split, because my clientele, my guys, are guy guys, super guys, and the guys that I work with, the women love. So, I mean it's-
GS: So there's advantages to both.
KS: There's advantages to both. I mean, the guys aspirationally either by one degree of separation, you know them through me, or you aspire to look like that, so you know them through me. If you're a girl, you want to know them through me, or you know you admire them because they're so pretty to look at.
GS: What is your advice to someone's that's growing their profile in a salon right now, and wants to make the jump to working with A-List clientele?
KS: I don't think there's any immediately like jump, to like oh one day I'm going to quit the salon, and I'm going to go work with a Hollywood A-list, I mean that's-
GS: Could they go get an agent?
KS: No, it's not that simple. It's funny, you know when I didn't have an agent, for years I never had an agent, I've only had one a couple years. No one will work with me, because they're like, "Who do you work with?" And I'm like, "Nobody." That's why I need an agent. And they're like, "All right, well when you have someone call me."
GS: So you would approach them and they wouldn't-
KS: And then began to approach a few different agencies early on.
GS: You approach the agencies, you didn't approach the celebrities obviously.
KS: No, I did that too. I did that because I didn't have an agent, so I just sort of, that's where my sales background came in, you know, I just started cold calling people and meeting people, and then working, and once they gave you that shot, because no one wants to work with you when you're not working with anyone.
GS: Why?
KS: Because you don't have the list, you don't have the credibility, they say you don't know how to behave and handle yourself in front of that type of clientele. So it's a risk, it's them putting themselves on the line for you, and they don't know you. You work with one, and then the next, and then someone else in the office hears about you, and then they book you, and then all of a sudden you have a roster of names, and then another publicist will be-
GS: And this is before you have an agent?
KS: Before I had an agent.
GS: But you still gotta network yourself to those publicists, you still gotta-
KS: It's more like, hey do you have any work for me. Once you sort of start working, once the wheel gets spinning, you just have to keep your legs moving all the time.
GS: In beauty school, do they teach you sales [inaudible 00:27:01]?
KS: No, not at all.
GS: There's not a class on how to get clients?
KS: No class on how to get clients.
GS: Don't you think that would be a good idea?
KS: Oh boy, I think it'd be a fantastic idea.
GS: That's a problem for people, if they get into this industry, they need to learn how to sell, you have to hustle business.
KS: Yes. business.
GS: Where's the growth opportunity in your business? How do you grow your business, how do you grow your income?
KS: I have the agency, which is my normal I guess you would say red carpet, advertising, press junket, there's that world. I'm working on a E-Commerce site right now. I have my social media. I'm constantly pitching editors all the time for stories. I'm constantly pitching for segments on TV.
GS: You're a hairstylist or an entrepreneur?
KS: That's a great question. A hairstylist or an entrepreneur? Yeah, I'm an entrepreneur. I really do, I think I'm an entrepreneur. And I think being an entrepreneur is failing all the time, because there's so many setbacks. And there's so much that goes along with it, I mean it's not easy. But I can't imagine anything else, because my success is because I am entrepreneurial, I'm always coming up with creative ways to make things happen. I mean, I get told no all the time, all the time.
GS: So you have failures?
KS: Oh my God, who doesn't have failures. But I don't see that as a failure though, I see it as a motivation. I get told no so many times, I'm like, oh okay, let me try a different approach you know, let me try a different person. But I mean, someone's gonna say yes at some point.
GS: If you would like to learn more about today's guest, visit our website at Mainstreethustle.biz. If you like our show, subscribe to us on iTunes, or wherever you get your podcast. In the next episode of Main Street Hustle, we meet Chris Coyle, who turned his passion for brewing beer, into a successful local business.
In this episode of Main Street Hustle, we sit down for coffee with KS Serafino, a celebrity hairstylist and men's grooming expert, whose client list reads like a who's who of entertainment A-Listers. Now KS won't divulge her client names, but a simple search of her Instagram feed, or a review of her online portfolio, shows her work with Ryan Reynolds, Daniel Craig, Matthew McConaughey, Shawn Mendes, Norman Reedus, Kelsey Grammar, and Michael J. Fox, just to name a few.
Her work has appeared on the covers of just about every fashion magazine including GQ, Esquire, Vogue, Vanity Fair and Cosmopolitan. She's been an on-air guest at QVC and a brand spokesperson for a lot of beauty products. KS is a hard-working businesswoman, and she's completely independent, working a never-ending schedule of photo shoots, press junkets, morning shows, and once in a while back at a salon, all while building her brand and networking to find new clients.
We pick it up with KS on a Sunday afternoon in a rather noisy Time Square coffee shop.
Glen Sanders (GS): What's the hustle these days, what's the hustle?
Kristan Serafino (KS): I mean the hustle is, it's a Sunday and what time are we sitting here, whatever time it is. From you, I go to another meeting for a dinner meeting, for the next project that I'm working on, which is at 8 o'clock. Tomorrow morning, I have a job at 7 in the morning. Right now, I've been mostly in New York, but December, I'm traveling two different times, January I have another job I'm traveling for. Then I start a whole press junket for a huge world tour for a movie that's coming out in the summer. I mean, there's no stopping. Because when you do stop, it just passes you by. I mean it's always constantly evolving.
GS: So it's seven days a week.
KS: Seven days a week, 24 hours a day. I wake up in the middle of the night, "Oh, I just need to do this." Or I think, now social media, that's a whole nother animal. I mean that in itself was a full-time job. It's a constant struggle. There's no easy way. No one's given me anything. I've earned everything.
GS: But you have an agent that goes out and gets you work right?
KS: I'd love to think that, my agent is wonderful, but the reality is, I get a lot of, most of my work. I'm the one's that's out there, I'm the one that's doing the job. I'm the one that presents myself to the client or to the publicist. And then what my agent does, is they'll put me up for new jobs, and it's up to me to keep the jobs. It's up to me. So I'm the one that's working it. They'll negotiate for me, they'll do all the billings and the contracts, and the paperwork.
GS: What part of the business do you have to do, that's not actually cutting hair and how much time do you think you spend doing that?
KS: All of it. I just do all of it. I mean cutting hair is the easy work, I mean truly, that's the easy part.
GS: What's the hard part?
KS: What's the hard part?
GS: The traveling?
KS: You know, it's not-
GS: Lugging the gear around.
KS: That's not even the hard part. The hard part is always trying to be, for me, and this is just my personal goal, is that I always want to do better. I mean there's always something I can do to be better. There's always something that I can always do to make sure that my client feels more confident today than they did the last time I was with them. And trying to think about how is it that I can better myself. I mean that's really the honest to God truth. And that's I think with us, that's what does make me where I am today, in a great position that I do get to just travel the world. But it gives me more opportunities than I think most. Because I never take it for granted.
GS: Are you working harder now than when you did when you were in a salon?
KS: I think I've always worked hard GS. I mean that's just such a lame answer, but I think I've always worked hard. Building clientele isn't easy. I went from one salon to the other salon, even in Manhattan, which you would think, oh from uptown to downtown, how difficult is it to go from uptown to downtown? I lost half my clientele. Because people are like, "I'm not going downtown." And you're like, "Well wait, it's only 10 minutes." It's like a 10 minute cab ride. But you know how New Yorkers are.
GS: Right, it's a 10 minute cab ride, until it's not, and then it's a 30 minute cab ride and then you're pissed because you just wasted an hour.
KS: Yes, exactly. So even that, I mean you have to build your own clientele. No one gives you a clientele. You have to earn the trust and respect of people.
GS: Same thing whether you have a chair some place or whether you're doing it the way you're doing it. So you get to fly around the world on jets, on private jets, you get to work with big name celebrities.
KS: That sounds so obnoxious.
GS: I know it does.
KS: That's obnoxious, it sounds terrible.
GS: But do you have personal relationshiops with any of them? I mean, you get to go out to dinner with them, do they text you? Do you create real friendships?
KS: As you know, a hairdresser has a confidentiality hairdresser clause, which is we never cut and tell. So I can never share any of that information with you, it's hairdresser client confidentiality agreement.
GS: I didn't say to name names, it sounds like it's a really cool job, and you don't really have to work very hard, you get to hang out, you get to ... right, that's what it sounds like. What's the reality?
KS: The reality is, I work my ass off every single day, and the hustle is real. I mean there's nothing easy about what I do. It's been 15 years of constant struggle and it still is, to this day.
GS: How much of your work is travel?
KS: I would say 50% of my work right now is travel. I go through spurts. I did last year a world tour. We did, I think it was like seven or eight countries in like six days. I mean you literally ... It sounds glamorous, and in some ways yes, it's very glamorous. Because I guess when you're doing, you know you're getting off a jet, and there's security to pick you up, and then all of a sudden you're getting in these cars and there's no lines, and there's no waits, and there's just none of that. But the reality is, you're going from your hotel to the junket, to the press, to the red carpet, to the plane. And then you're in another country the next day. And you do that back to back.
KS: For me it's easy, because I'm just getting them ready in the morning, and then I'm just there to watch to make sure there's not anything necessarily would be offensive on camera, and also making that actor feel their best. Because most of these actors and actresses, what they go through, it's not like you and I get up every day, we wash our face and put some lotion on. We style our hair at the door. I mean, they're spending hours in a chair. Then there's all the harsh lights, and there's weather conditions, meaning getting like tortured sometimes with silicones and masks, and makeup, and same thing with hair and weaves.
KS: So what I'm trying to do is help them every day to maintain that.
GS: And at the end of the day, you've got to get their makeup off and recover their skin somehow.
KS: Exactly. And again, when you-
GS: So you're not just cutting hair?
KS: No, not really. It's a lot more than just cutting hair, but it's not-
GS: You don't want to name names of the blemishes that-
KS: We don't have to.
GS: Needing specific coverings.
KS: We often do, it's their skin, we all have blemishes from time to time, everyone does.
GS: What's it like to be the entourage?
KS: Yeah, I had one situation with my musician who is young, and hundreds, I kid you not, hundreds of screaming teenage girls, and we came off of a tour by airbus, and he got taken. I don't even know how or what happened, really it was so fast, when I tell you just like hundreds of girls I was surrounded by, and I just was standing there in a sea of girls.
GS: Who all trample you in order to get-
KS: Trample me, to get to him. And next thing I knew, two very, very, very large men came literally from under my arms, lifted me, and just plowed, not walked, plowed through these women, young girls. And the next thing I know, I just was inside, and it was a blur. But I just remember my feet weren't on the ground, but I was moving.
KS: Oh I've been left behind once. And then, I [inaudible 00:08:58]-
GS: Like in a city or?
KS: No meaning, as you're moving through buildings or you're moving and then you have fans and crowds, sometimes you have to maneuver. And if you want up close-
GS: Do you kind of like go through the kitchen and the back doors, and the?
KS: Through the kitchen, through yes back doors.
GS: The back alley ways, the secret corridors.
KS: And sometimes you just get ... you know, I'm 5'9", I'm not exactly petite and tiny, but I'm a thin 5'9", and sometimes there's a lot bigger people that want to get to my client. So they will just jump in front, and sometimes I do, I get either pushed out, and then security they'll just grab me. I've had funny things like-
GS: What would you say if the bonus experiences you get because of the kinds of clientele you work with, like being offstage at a concert, or something like that?
KS: I think for me it's the behind the scenes. It's watching a client go through what they do, their routine, to get onstage. Or going through their experiences to go in front of a camera. Or walking a red carpet. Those are something, and think oh they're so lucky they get to do that. No, stand in front hundreds of thousands of screaming at you, or walk a red carpet where they're pushing in and the little fences are falling. It's a world that no one ever [inaudible 00:10:13]. So that part of it, you never quite get used to, but it's interesting to see it. Because you're not just looking from afar, you're actually in it. It's horrible. I mean, I wouldn't want someone tugging at my shirt and hair, and any other part of my body just to touch me. That I would never, I don't think you would ever become comfortable with that. I mean there's that sort of space you want that space around you, it's that very vulnerable area that you don't let people in.
GS: That personal space.
KS: That personal space.
GS: If someone were to look at your rate, your rate is much higher now doing what you do, that it would be in a salon. If you were in a salon, you can push through what 10, 15 people in a day.
KS: I mean yeah, we have a hairstylist out there, I think he gets $1,500 for a haircut. So that's really good rates. And then you have-
GS: You don't get $1,500 every time you go out?
KS: No, I don't, I don't get $1,500 every time I cut hair.
GS: Why does he get $1,500?
KS: That's the rate he set for himself in his salon. And then there's hairdressers that are $9.00 an hour.
GS: And there's a salon hairstylist that gets-
KS: A salon hairstylist. So I mean, it varies. The thing I think about this industry, is it's good to know that there is no ceiling. You can constantly push. For someone to be out there and charge $1,500 for a haircut and people will pay. Who's to say someone won't pay $2,000, who says someone won't pay $5,000, I don't know, but that's the only if, I have no idea.
GS: But don't you need to charge more, because you are seeing less people in a day? So in your role now, you're still working eight, 10 hours, 12 hours a day, but you're not putting eight, or 10, or 12 clients through a day. You're working with one client for 12 hours.
KS: Yes. I mean I would love to think that makes sense and that's how it works. But getting back to that, editorials x amount of numbers, advertising you can push the rates, depending on the job, depending on who's paying for it.
GS: Are you making more money now than at your height of working in a salon?
KS: Yes, but I'm a different hairdresser than I was then.
GS: How's that?
KS: Well I'm more seasoned. I mean I have seniority.
GS: So are there seasoned hairstylists that work in salons that can make the same kind of income?
KS: Of course. You start off as an assistant, and you get your chair. And typically you're a lower price. You're paying when you go to a higher level or a master stylist, you're paying a higher rate, because of their experience. So I would want to believe that as a hairstylist, as I continue to educate myself even within the salon, if I was just behind the chair, that I would continually get better in the salon itself every year would elevate their rates, and as I continue to grow, my rate would go up.
GS: But you have to change salons to do that? Sometimes people, the best raise they get is when they change jobs. Or is it better to stick with that salon?
KS: I think that has to do with location of salons, and type of salons. If it's new and different, and brands. There's prestige, and then there's [inaudible 00:13:15]. It's where do you want to be. So with New York City, Madison Avenue, has a certain prestige about it. So they can drive numbers higher, because that clientele is willing to spend more money.
GS: Don't you still have that problem if you off on a junket for a month or something, now you can't service a particular client for a while.
KS: It does.
GS: Do you risk losing your client?
KS: I mean there's always that risk. For anything, even if you're behind the chair in a salon. You're not available that one Saturday that someone needs you, there's a chance that they may go to someone else.
GS: You do a lot of stuff for the morning shows, right?
KS: Yes.
GS: So what happens if you have more than one client, running around different morning shows in the same day?
KS: Sometimes you double dip. I mean and that's where, I have wonderful agents. My agency is Tracey Mattingly, and there's a group of agents that are wonderful in managing my schedule, and who's requesting me. And sometimes it is, like it comes down to, and this is where it's very fortunate that the industry is forgiving. An advertising campaign is certainly a much bigger budget than say a red carpet. And I think that whether it's a publicist or whether it's the actor, most people understand that we all are trying to survive and make a living. So obviously an advertising campaign will always trump a red carpet. I've been very fortunate, knock on wood right here at this table, that my clientele come back. Which is really, really, really good. I mean it's-
GS: Why do you think they come back, or what do you do consciously to make them come back?
KS: What do I do consciously, I think the first thing is I'm really professional with what I do. I mean, I'm not trying to be a celebrity, that's not my job. My job is to make sure that that celebrity or that CFO or CEO, or that athlete, looks and feels their best when they go out to the public. But I think it's a hairstylist's job behind the chair, that you educate your clients.
GS: But that brings the client back to you, the next time they need a haircut, because you're not just giving them a haircut, you're working on a style consult-
KS: Exactly.
GS: That lasts, that takes place over a number of visits.
KS: Everyone sits in my chair, I don't care who you are. They never see what they like, they always see what they don't like about themselves. If you're sitting in front of a mirror for 45 minutes to an hour, not very often in life do you sit in front of a mirror for that long. So you're forced to face or to look at, every insecurity that you could possibly have.
GS: So you have other celebrity hairstylist friends?
KS: Of course, of course. We all-
GS: What's the industry like, are you guys friendly, do you help each other out?
KS: I think so. I've never, in any industry that I've worked in, I've never been like isolated from anyone.
GS: Is there any cut throat nature to it, I mean do they try and steal clients from each other? Does any of that ever happen?
KS: It is so funny you say that, I don't believe in that. If a client leaves me, it just makes room for a new one. And that's just how, I have no right to own anybody. I do a job, I do it the best that I possibly can, I provide a service, I hope that client is happy. If they are they'll come back. If they're not, then my time with them is done. It's just makes room for a new one.
GS: Are you turning business away?
KS: I never turn business away, ever.
GS: How? How is that possible? Sometimes you have to, because you're just too busy.
KS: Well it's not that I'm too busy. Do schedules conflict? Yes, that happens. But do I turn it away? No, my agent tries to work to figure it out, we try to work around the times, is it flexible, can I have an assistant fill in for me, and then I'll go back to a job, I mean that happens sometimes.
GS: What are the non-glamorous parts of your job?
KS: The non-glamorous parts of my job, are schlepping my kit around New York City, which weighs about 60 pounds, I think 50, 60 pounds. Do I really need all that stuff in that kit.
GS: Can't you just have a limo come pick you up, and just take you from job to job?
KS: What world do you live in? That's the one I want to live in.
GS: Not in the celebrity world, so tell me, how do you get from one place to another?
KS: This is why I say, I am not the celebrity. They are the celebrity. I'm the help, I'm the hired help, I'm the hairstylist. I mean I get around like you get around. I walk around, I walk everywhere.
GS: With your 60 pound bag.
KS: 50, 60 yeah. And it's funny, because at most times, I need a few things. But it's that one time that I don't have it, I need to be prepared for anything.
GS: What's in a 50 pound bag, I mean don't you just travel with some scissors and a comb?
KS: I mean everything from skin care ... no, I mean there's scissors, there's clippers, there's beard trimmers, there's skin care, there's makeup, there's wardrobe. A lot of times if I'm with someone and a button pops, I have to be able to fix it. I have a lint brush. If hems undo, you've got to be able to like tape them up, so you have to be prepared. Someone cuts their finger, you have to be prepared for everything.
GS: Do the clients just call an 800 number, and be like, "Hi, I'm a celebrity and I need to get my hair cut, can you hook me up." How do they get in touch with your agent and find you?
KS: For me it's referrals. So I'll meet someone, I'll be with someone, I'll be with a publicist and the publicist has other clients. Or it could be I meet an assistant of an actor, and then I have a relationship with her, and then she recommends me.
GS: Do you ever cut the publicist's hair?
KS: Of course, of course you do. I mean you cut-
GS: It's part of the marketing.
KS: You cut whoever wants to sit in your chair. Being behind the chair, that's the happy place. That's what it's for, and that's what I work my entire for. I was in corporate for ten years, and became a hairdresser at 30, so I mean, I left everything. A good paying job, 401k, IRA, savings, bye- bye, to $6.50 an hour [inaudible 00:19:03]. My first year I made $12,500.
GS: Why'd you do that?
KS: Why? Because I just loved being a hairdresser. I mean I really did, I absolutely love it.
GS: But how did you find out you loved it, if you weren't doing haircutting?
KS: I think I always had a desire. My mom was a hairdresser or [inaudible 00:19:20] cousins, and I had always thought I wanted to be a hairstylist. But my mom, and God love her for it, she said, "No, you need to go to college.", my sister and I, you had to get your degree. And I'm glad I did. I have a bachelor college degree.
GS: In what?
KS: Communications. Like I tell my dad, I talk a lot. So, he's like, "Oh, how's that degree working out?"
GS: Do you think you get your talking a lot from the communications degree or from the family?
KS: No, I would have to say I probably get that from the Italian heritage of the family.
GS: So one of the challenges you probably have with your business is, you only make money when you work.
KS: Yes.
GS: Have you thought about that?
KS: Again, it motivates me. It really does, it motivates me every day. Because there is an up side, continuous every day I get X amount of dollars because I get up and I go to work. So it keeps me highly motivated, but the potential for me is greater, and the paychecks are way better.
GS: How much a year?
KS: It depends on the day.
GS: How much more are you making now versus your ... you're not making your $12,000 a year now.
KS: No I'm definitely not making that.
GS: Are you back to making your six figures?
KS: I'll just say that I'm able to buy new shoes.
GS: At will?
KS: Exactly, at will.
GS: Every day or once a week?
KS: I would say every day, I would say that I guy nice shoes. I still go to sample sales, I mean they're still my shoes.
GS: Can an everyday person afford, I mean what's your rate compared to what it was, or what it would be like if I went to a high-end salon?
KS: You really want to go there don't you, you really want to go there. It's hard to put a number on it, the rates vary depending on the job. It truly does.
GS: What varies in the job?
KS: Editorial, meaning magazine rate, is a flat rate across the board.
GS: Is that industry based or is it?
KS: That's industry based.
GS: Based on the work you have to do. You're still doing the same work.
KS: It doesn't matter. Editorial, [inaudible 00:21:14] they pay a flat rate. It doesn't matter who's on the cover, it doesn't matter who you're shooting with, it doesn't matter, that's the rate. But in turn, you're getting a cover magazine, and you're getting credits in there in the story, so it's exposure as a groomer, as a hairstylist. It always fluctuates, independent film versus a big film.
GS: So what's the range, what's the low and the high of the range?
KS: The range is, glad we're not [inaudible 00:21:44] ranges. Never cut and tell, never cut and tell.
GS: Do you command a different rate than say somebody else that might cut the same person's hair? Or is it kind of flat across the board, the group of you that are A-List hairstylists?
KS: Again, and I'm really being sincere, it depends on who's paying for it. One time may give a great rate, the next may ... I still do free jobs. There's still tremendous wonderful magazine talent there, the ones that are left, there's no pay at all, I just get a credit, so my name's in it. So you do those too.
GS: How does that help you?
KS: It just adds to the portfolio, it keeps me relevant.
GS: So speaking of being relevant, do you do a lot of social media?
KS: I do, social media is a full-time job. I post my work, I post on things that are happening throughout my day. It's sort of like letting people that enjoy my work see a little behind the scenes. But even with that, you have to be very careful, because there's that confidentiality with my clients. Because if I'm shooting today something, it might not come out for three months.
GS: That's also an incredible way to build your social media profile, you tag the celebrity in your-
KS: Well I mean that's something, that's one of those sort of codes, that-
GS: I mean you have a particular client, who has huge, I mean they all have huge social media followers, but one has grown your social media maybe more than some of the others would you say?
KS: Yes, because he has-
GS: He allows you to-
KS: It's not like just allows, but he's of that generation, that that's all they do is social media. I mean it's interesting, because I don't think I have that many followers, but according to publicists for beauty brands they say that they like my following, because it's very engaged, I do my Instastories, they comment, I talk back to them, because I feel like if you're going to take the time to watch what I'm doing, that the least I could do is acknowledge, and that's what I think is important. There's nothing about my social world that's fake, it's my real world. For the first time I've been asked to review, and being paid sponsorships for products. For me-
GS: On your Instagram?
KS: On my Instagram. For me, I only will engage with that if I believe in it. Because it's not about the money, it's about the integrity for me. I think that when I do talk about products, or if I do use something on a client, it's because I've used it on myself, I've used it on a man, I've used on my friends, I've used it on family, and then it goes into my kit. Because I believe in it. I'm not just saying because someone's brand is paying me money, it's not-
GS: Right, so now brand in that case, now brand has access to your ... it's their way of getting access to your social media following, which may skew a little younger based. Are some of your clientele, are they spending money on hair products and?
KS: Yes those are definitely women and men that are buying products.
GS: Do you find that they're more male or female?
KS: I think a fair split, because my clientele, my guys, are guy guys, super guys, and the guys that I work with, the women love. So, I mean it's-
GS: So there's advantages to both.
KS: There's advantages to both. I mean, the guys aspirationally either by one degree of separation, you know them through me, or you aspire to look like that, so you know them through me. If you're a girl, you want to know them through me, or you know you admire them because they're so pretty to look at.
GS: What is your advice to someone's that's growing their profile in a salon right now, and wants to make the jump to working with A-List clientele?
KS: I don't think there's any immediately like jump, to like oh one day I'm going to quit the salon, and I'm going to go work with a Hollywood A-list, I mean that's-
GS: Could they go get an agent?
KS: No, it's not that simple. It's funny, you know when I didn't have an agent, for years I never had an agent, I've only had one a couple years. No one will work with me, because they're like, "Who do you work with?" And I'm like, "Nobody." That's why I need an agent. And they're like, "All right, well when you have someone call me."
GS: So you would approach them and they wouldn't-
KS: And then began to approach a few different agencies early on.
GS: You approach the agencies, you didn't approach the celebrities obviously.
KS: No, I did that too. I did that because I didn't have an agent, so I just sort of, that's where my sales background came in, you know, I just started cold calling people and meeting people, and then working, and once they gave you that shot, because no one wants to work with you when you're not working with anyone.
GS: Why?
KS: Because you don't have the list, you don't have the credibility, they say you don't know how to behave and handle yourself in front of that type of clientele. So it's a risk, it's them putting themselves on the line for you, and they don't know you. You work with one, and then the next, and then someone else in the office hears about you, and then they book you, and then all of a sudden you have a roster of names, and then another publicist will be-
GS: And this is before you have an agent?
KS: Before I had an agent.
GS: But you still gotta network yourself to those publicists, you still gotta-
KS: It's more like, hey do you have any work for me. Once you sort of start working, once the wheel gets spinning, you just have to keep your legs moving all the time.
GS: In beauty school, do they teach you sales [inaudible 00:27:01]?
KS: No, not at all.
GS: There's not a class on how to get clients?
KS: No class on how to get clients.
GS: Don't you think that would be a good idea?
KS: Oh boy, I think it'd be a fantastic idea.
GS: That's a problem for people, if they get into this industry, they need to learn how to sell, you have to hustle business.
KS: Yes. business.
GS: Where's the growth opportunity in your business? How do you grow your business, how do you grow your income?
KS: I have the agency, which is my normal I guess you would say red carpet, advertising, press junket, there's that world. I'm working on a E-Commerce site right now. I have my social media. I'm constantly pitching editors all the time for stories. I'm constantly pitching for segments on TV.
GS: You're a hairstylist or an entrepreneur?
KS: That's a great question. A hairstylist or an entrepreneur? Yeah, I'm an entrepreneur. I really do, I think I'm an entrepreneur. And I think being an entrepreneur is failing all the time, because there's so many setbacks. And there's so much that goes along with it, I mean it's not easy. But I can't imagine anything else, because my success is because I am entrepreneurial, I'm always coming up with creative ways to make things happen. I mean, I get told no all the time, all the time.
GS: So you have failures?
KS: Oh my God, who doesn't have failures. But I don't see that as a failure though, I see it as a motivation. I get told no so many times, I'm like, oh okay, let me try a different approach you know, let me try a different person. But I mean, someone's gonna say yes at some point.
GS: If you would like to learn more about today's guest, visit our website at Mainstreethustle.biz. If you like our show, subscribe to us on iTunes, or wherever you get your podcast. In the next episode of Main Street Hustle, we meet Chris Coyle, who turned his passion for brewing beer, into a successful local business.